Season 3 Episode 11: Retirement, Relationships and Making Sure You’re on the Right Track
IN THIS EPISODE
This episode, we're tackling a topic that comes up in conversations with clients all the time: "I think I'm doing okay, but I just want to check."
For many people, the question isn't really "How much money do I need?", but rather "Am I on the right track?"
Darlene is honest about her aversion to retirement, sharing why the idea of stopping work has never appealed to her and how differently she and her husband view this stage of life. Meanwhile, for Mel, retirement isn't something she spends much time thinking about at all, preferring to focus on living a meaningful life today.
In this episode, we chat about:
Why retirement means different things to different people
The importance of purpose, contribution and meaning
The difference between retiring because you want to and retiring because you think you should
Why so many people wonder “Am I on the right track?” when it comes to money
The value of asking "what if?" and preparing for life's unexpected twists and turns
Why it's important to enjoy life today while still planning for tomorrow
Plus, in our educational segment, we discuss why money can be one of the most challenging topics for couples to navigate, the importance of open and honest communication, and some of the green flags we look for when partners are financially aligned.
As always, it all comes down to understanding our individual money stories – and being open to understanding others’ stories too. We hope you enjoy the episode and it encourages you to think about yours more deeply.
ABOUT THE MONEY COLLECTIVE PODCAST
Financial Wellbeing with The Money Collective brings together the stories and experiences of working with thousands of Australians when it comes to money, this is no holds barred, honest podcast. Darlene and Mel have been working in banking and finance for over 50 years and break down the barriers that we face everyday when it comes to our relationships, families and finances.
READY TO GO ON THE JOURNEY OF FINANCIAL WELLBEING?
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💬Book a time with us to chat about money to ask questions and talk all things financial wellbeing, home loans, and more. Email team@themoneycollective.com.au
✨Take action and uplift your own level of financial wellbeing with our online course: https://www.themoneycollective.com.au/onlinecourse
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Transcript:
(00:00)
Welcome to the Money Collective Podcast. We're here to uplift your financial well-being. Your hosts are me, Mel Pearce and Darlene Neu. We are the co-founders of The Money Collective and together we have over 50 years of finance and banking experience. We provide the tools, information and guidance to better understand your money and feel confident making money decisions.
(00:20)
Hey everyone, back again for another episode with The Money Collective. I'm Darlene and this is Mel. And we are gonna kick off today with a truth. My truth today is about the magic word retirement and my belief system around retired. I have a belief system that retirement is like the end.
(00:28)
I don't.
(00:50)
The feeling in my body is that you're going to sit in an armchair and do nothing with the rest of your life. Like when I hear those words, it's very triggering.
(01:03)
You're officially an old person sitting in a chair with all wrinkles and boring. Yeah.
(01:09)
Eating food, maybe not even making, yeah, probably yeah, pre cooked meal. This is right. Yeah.
(01:11)
In a microwave? Days of our lives in the bold and the beautiful, a walking stick?
(01:19)
Yes. My name. But she never stops. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Anyway, so I've probably got some work to unpack that as to why I believe.
(01:28)
So hang on, was this your nan nan? Did you just describe your nan? Well no.
(01:32)
Well No, but that's what I mean. It wasn't. so my dad's mum, she, I feel like this is your biggest fear, by the way, in life. Like retirement. The boogie monster.
(01:41)
Talk about it a lot. What I feel like, it is yeah actually that's very helpful. These are very therapeutic people because of that and just to overlay where we are in our lives my family so my husband is Dennis. Hey Dennis. He's been out of work for a few months now but he's fifty eight and he's been talking about him and I are on completely different pages when it comes to this word of retirement.
(02:15)
So the opposite to you is he must be very excited about retirement.
(02:19)
He's been talking about it for the last five years. Living for retirement. That's right. But this is so true. So he has been living for retirement and he's been talking about it and even financially. Yep, I could retire now. I'm good. Let's go. You know, I'm gonna retire.
(02:21)
Living for a retirement. So he sees it as a status symbol and you see it as an old age badge.
(02:43)
Yes. This is very true. So I feel like there's been no thought. So anyway Are you I feel like that is ⁓ something to overcome. ⁓ as as you get older, you definitely notice ⁓ judgment around age. And so it is yes, I feel like you Spirit anti aging, like you know your agent.
Yeah, of course.
(03:09)
Right. Yeah.
(03:12)
Where does it start going downhill just yet? Yeah, just to let me know. Fifty? Forty three this month.
(03:14)
Yeah, so just to let you know. You become more aware of it. Maybe it's more that psyche, you know, this life. Half the time and that you've got less than half the time left. So I definitely had that. And I've talked to a lot of actually, women, particularly, that have hit those age and I'm sure it's not particular to women, but that people what that it is whether it's a physiophysiological thing that happens where you you have those moments.
(03:25)
Gonna feel 'cause I feel like..
(03:50)
And I hear lots of, you know, women say where they actually, you know, well, it can do lots of triggers, right? You can spend more time on this, ⁓ doing great things or or whatever you want and having fun, or you can do the opposite, I suppose, and start to really start to shut down. ⁓ yeah. And I think it started with a belief that, wow, I've been on this earth for longer than I've got left.
(04:19)
Think that's the first bit that you really and then you are just more aware and notice stuff that you probably, you've only got so much time left I d you don't want to waste it. You've got so much left to do.
(04:28)
Right, so much left to do. Like that feeling, no, God, God kill me now. Yeah, no. No, no, no. And more about what have I got left to do? You know, I talk about travel and personal life, but also making a difference. My why, the why and that's why I I love, you know, what I do every day, you know, with the money collective.
(04:33)
No sitting on the couch for you.
(04:58)
It's making a difference and I really want to make a difference. I don't want to tell people how to do stuff. I just want to make a difference and make it a better place.
(05:09)
And so how does that go with ⁓ enlightenment? Well you indeed.
(05:16)
Back to the back I've got to digress, don't I? I don't think so. My observation and this ⁓ what I've got out of just what we've talked about, I I just really need a really big conversation, I think with Dan what my light bulb is. Yeah. Hmm. I feel like that might be it. So, you know, he goes to the gym every day, loves the gym. So every morning at five thirty, gets up at five, goes to the gym, every day, five days a week I should say, five out of seven.
(05:18)
Dennis wants to ⁓ you've got to have it out.
(05:44)
Without fail, that's his thing. Right?
(05:47)
And I've had an idea. You keep going. I've had an idea for Dennis. I'll hold on to it.
(05:49)
So then he comes home and we live in suburbia. So I feel like it was a bit like COVID initially. ⁓ so we finished maybe in February. What is it? End of ⁓ it's June now. So ⁓ you know, initially it was a bit exciting. It was a bit like COVID for me, you know, a bit exciting. I'm gonna slow down a little bit, I'm gonna do some jobs that I really want to do. And then they run out, right? So then what happens? A lot of scrolling on the phone, you know, and
I remember saying ages ago, this was, you know, not when this happened, about that. I said, What are you gonna do in your retirement years? Because you can't sit around, go to the gym each morning and scroll on your phone for the rest of the day. I feel like I've manifested it because that's what's happening. I'm saying that, yes, so ⁓ he I can see his demeanour has diminished and he's less productive. So those things have run out as you start to worry about life.
(06:51)
The fears of retirement are playing out right before your eyes.
06:56)
Yeah. And why retirement? So coming back to that. So I reckon retirement's it's stigma that I've made enough or I can fund myself or I think I think that's a stigma. I think the word retirement and stigma and people sometimes don't actually think through what that means in a practical sense for their life. Mm-hmm. ⁓ and how they're gonna live it. Like if you're fifty eight, I mean, I don't know, maybe he's got another thirty years on him. I don't know. Let's go with that. It's a lot of life to sit on the couch. Anyway, so I'm saying that though ⁓
(07:31)
It's like you're saying that he hasn't actually thought it through. So like he's lived his whole life to be in a position to retire. Maybe he wants this is my thought though about Dennis. Like and Dennis, prove me wrong, you guys can have a conversation and we'll talk about this on another podcast episode. But like maybe, he wants it to be in a support role for the money collective. Like he is he'd be happy to be like maybe our bookkeeper, understand, you know, keep under.
(07:34)
That's my point. Yeah. He would love that. Help us no matter what. Yes. Yes. I think it needs to feel you 'cause you need purple.
(08:07)
You do. And then you might need to move. He might need some a little he might need some grass to mow and some trees to prune and well he would love to move. He would love that. He would definitely be in his happy place.
(08:23)
So my retirement does sound like a conversation and a compromise.
(08:27)
That's right. You can do so much traveling and stuff, but why is it? But what I was gonna say is that he's actually now keen to go back to work. Yes. So what it's done in that period of time, you've gone from the high to a bit lower, and now I can see he's ready to go back to work and he's getting excited, you by some job interviews and things coming.
(08:47)
I think there's a risk though that he just does that and then you guys fall back into life and then you don't need to worry about retirement anymore. You can do your thing, he's at work, you're happy, he's being you know.
(08:56)
No, I do this for life, which is what I've always said. But
(08:59)
That you haven't you do you still need to talk about this. You need to talk about it.
(09:03)
Yeah. Yeah. Because maybe he had a thing that if he does that then I will slow down and ⁓ travel sit on the couch all your grandma.
(09:11)
And so you want him to have his own purpose. You don't want him going back to work because you think it's a good idea.
(09:18)
No, that's right. I yeah, true.
(09:20)
So can I ask you a question? Sure. Do you know what my perspective is on retirement?
09:27)
I don't 'cause I never ask, always just tell you what mine is.
(09:31)
Go ahead. Would you know what I was wondering? No, yeah, but could you guess?
(09:38)
Whether you believe in a construct, but doing different things I think floats your boat.
(09:45)
Yeah. So I don't ever so I don't have the imaginary line in the sand where there's retirement. I don't even think it exists. Like it's just life and I can't see that far into the future. I think I said that on the la I can't see, I can't see. I don't know. And I'm not it I don't and you've taught me so much about not relying on outcomes and things like that. So I just live with my purpose right now, which is this.
(10:15)
I wanna create choices for my future. I just don't know what my future is yet. For some reason, I think it is me living at ⁓ what is it when you're on your own, like and you're a loner? There's a word for that. Recluse. Yeah, a bit like a recluse. Yeah, like and I'm living on a cliff in Spain and
(10:19)
Roll.
(10:37)
I have a little veggie patch. Yeah. I can see this like a little thing in my, it's so weird, I have no idea if that's my reality, if that was a past life or what is coming through to me. But beyond that, I don't have this ultimate goal of anything for myself. Well it's yeah. So I don't know whether that's weird or
(10:56)
No, no, I don't think I'm that dissimilar. I think I don't. Actually I don't think I'm that dissimilar. I know that I need purpose and I know, you know, that I'm not. I don't want to see it around. That's pretty much I don't know any more than that.
(11:11)
Yeah. Did anyone say that to you, I don't want to sit around? Or did you make that up? Because my mum says that a lot. She goes, she almost says word for word what you say. I don't wanna sit around and become like an old person. What am I gonna do with my life if I just sit there?
(11:29)
I didn't hear it. It's my observation of so again, rightly or wrongly, it's my observation of when people slow down, I see them get old. Yeah. Because it won't be everybody, but you know, if you know, my mum, my mum stopped work at seventy six. So she worked till seventy six and n since she's stopped working, she doesn't want to do anything.
(11:40)
Like what an old person is. What an old person, yeah, so it is the evidence that you can see around.
(11:59)
You just sit around, look after my stepdad who's getting a bit older, and she looks happy.
(12:08)
What about okay, I'm gonna get really philosophical here. It's the one life thing. Like it's just the one life running out. ⁓ like you only have this one, don't necessarily believe just in one life. But I want to make the most of this one. Yeah.
(12:24)
But you're right, it's like retirement is like the pattern that somebody laid down for us and said, You go to school, you get a job, you retire.
(12:31)
That i that hits a nerve for me because I don't like rules and com that sort of ⁓ what are
(12:38)
What are we working for then?
(12:42)
Well, ⁓ for me, a why. It's not about working. it's about enjoying the ride and making a difference. What a very fulfilling feeling, maybe?
(12:53)
What about the majority of people in your opinion? Why do they go to work?
(12:57)
To retire. We hear it all the time. We should go into our topic in a minute. But all the time. Why is why it's society thing, actually. It's me pushing against the rules. Because society says, I mean, even our superannuation rules, right? Say sixty you can access super, you can get a pension in this country at sixty seven. ⁓ what is all that about? So it drives people to those dates. Yes. Which is very static, very concrete, very following, follow the leader.
(13:36)
Do you see people giving their life away until the age of retirement to their work?
(13:42)
Absolutely. Yeah. All to retire. Yeah. Not to enjoy the ride. Yeah. Or to make a difference or to whatever your thing is. It doesn't matter. Yeah. Like why why? That's like two thirds of your life. Yes. That you just work. I suppose if you've had children, you've, you know, created the next generation. So maybe that's what you're doing. That's really important, I suppose, for people that want that. If they want that. And otherwise, what else do you do? Just work to retire.
(14:13)
Okay. So I know to all you podcasters, I know that Darlene is a person who's built a lot of choice into her life. Like is in that she could choose to do things. When would you choose to step back more from work and go and do other things? Like when did when do
(14:35)
Say this all the time when I am not useful. When I feel like I am not making a difference. When I feel like I'm a burden versus adding any value.
(14:49)
Interesting. Hang on. Yes. So but then other people would have the perspective if they're out travelling the world and getting experiences they can bring back value to their world and bring new…
(14:58)
See that too. Yeah. Why can't I do both? Why can't I do all of the above? That's still adding value. That's traveling, enjoying, learning. And I do have a learning value podcaster. So as long as I'm learning and adding value and, you know the purpose. Yeah.
(15:03)
Yeah. Yeah. But it's interesting, I think all of this just comes back down to the beliefs that we have. Our beliefs drive our life mission. Yeah. What we believe to be true. And it's really hard to change that belief system or that belief mechanism. Or if you do and you want to change what you believe to be true, to change your outcomes, it requires a lot of deep reflection. Yeah. Otherwise the path is paved.
(15:41)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
(15:43)
Yeah, so ⁓ I thought that I would talk about Willow. Hopefully this doesn't get cut into the rule for socials. Talking about Willow because he is, but anyway, I'm pretty sure I asked his permission to talk about this because I did give you guys an update, like it was at the end of last year he bought his first car and he I know, I said that to him. I said You and him. And I said we owe our viewers a follow up, like how..
(15:49)
Fallo. You can come on the podcast sometime.
(16:13)
How's it going? And so this car he was very proud. He's a tradey. He's doing his first just finished his first year apprenticeship, actually, carpentry, first year. So, and he's got the tradey ute. It's a Ford Ranger. I was gonna say it's a highlight because they're all the same to me. It's white, it's got the canopy on the back and it's got the drawers and it's very, very nice. I certainly did not have a car like that for my first car.
(16:15)
Come and sit on down.
(16:43)
And there's a lot of standing around with the boys looking at the car. How can we know, what's the next tinkery thing to do with the car? And then the car promptly shut itself. It ⁓ this is what also happens to young boys 'cause they they like the it's almost like the body of the car is more important and the the idea of like what it all is. But what's under the bonnet didn't really add up. The engine Cactus had to get towed. This was a couple of months ago now. And so it's been sitting up in the back paddock. ⁓ he's ⁓ collecting dust, he did some research because he has to replace the motor engine. Like it's like ten to fifteen thousand dollars. So he's just I think the car itself cost him like twenty-five thousand dollars. Now he has to save up another ten to fifteen thousand dollars straight away. ⁓ Kid.
So he and he pays board at home. He pays seventy-five dollars a week and he doesn't miss a beat. He's also planning an overseas trip. He seems to be happy enough. I don't know, but he and he's also saved almost the full amount. I know that he's got very close to ten thousand dollars saved again. So this kid, my god, if we had to put him down as a money personality, probably a saver.
(18:06)
She sounds very deliberate? Very deliberate. I'm like, He will just follow the textbook of life, I feel like. very sensible probably. ⁓ yeah, married, two and a half kids, all of those things. But it's like life throws you punt curveballs or whatever and you gotta duck and weave and there's not much you can do.
(18:34)
But that resilience that he's learning is so, so good.
(18:38)
Yeah. Like why do I wish I could have protected him from that? ⁓ have I dug him out of his problems? No, also. And he has been taken full, he doesn't shy away from that responsibility either.
(18:52)
I think as human beings, you know, that's we we want to feel good and valued or purposeful or you know, and making our own decisions and failing or succeeding is all part of that. Like other than, you know, this feels like maybe a parenting lesson, but you know, other than trying to, you know, hold them in a bubble or fix their problems or you know, this is not the answer. That's why he's growing and feeling good about himself 'cause, you know, he's working it out.
(19:23)
Well, I hope he is. I feel good about him. ⁓ but also it's really like as a parent, like to not judge somebody based on, you know, whether we think they're doing the right thing or the wrong thing or you know, to hold your tongue and go, Well, I wouldn't have bought that car or you know, I probably have said that out loud. Which is wrong or whatever. Just it is what it is. Just roll with it.
(19:41)
Yeah. He's figuring it out. Yeah. No, it's good on him, I think. Yeah, watch his installment. This is fantastic. There go. This great
(19:52)
That's the update. So ⁓ we do like to have like a bit of a middle segment where we ⁓ talk about a bit of a thing that we see come up quite a bit or like a topic that people like to chat to us about and we can almost like there's like just a range of things people talk about. And a really common one that we hear is I think I'm doing okay, but I wanna check that I am, and with that planning for the future type of overlay, like somebody will jump on a call with us and say, I've never had anybody like I've kind of made this up as I've gone. I've had my best crack. I'd really like to run it by you and you to tell me whether I'm doing okay, if it's a good idea.
(20:35)
And my priority is to plan for the future.
(20:37)
Yeah, and or are there any one percenters or whatever?
(20:41)
Yeah, that my gosh, that's such a common thing. Yeah. What are the tips and hints and the one percentage you can give?
(20:46)
Yeah. Like I'm sure you know, they just want those extra little tips or whatever. Yeah. And so what do you what are some common things or what are people talking about when they jump on those type of calls with you, darling?
(20:57)
Again, when they come on those type of calls, they are looking for, you know, concept things or just ⁓ you know, those little practical things that they might be doing. I think it's there's so many thoughts. You know, first of all, am I on the right track? Why do we want to check that we're on the right track? Would be one thought. The second thought though is those people that come normally. Because they've been focused on it for a very long time. ⁓ they it's not they're new to this and they want to change something. They they're already on their journey, ⁓ because they're already thinking about, you know, whether it's choice for the future or whatever their thing is. so ⁓ they they definitely have good things generally they're doing. ⁓ and then the third one is ⁓ I've lost my train of thought. Stop that. ⁓ come back. Yep.
(21:54)
Well, what I was thinking as you were saying that, are these type of people denied? Are these the type of people who fit into the category of like, I wanna retire, this is my plan, and this is I like I've got it all sorted or
(22:09)
No, Dennis isn't, he's not that plan for the future type of person. He likes the feeling of it, but not the plan with the map. No. These are map people. These are ⁓ yeah.
(22:17)
Yes. Definitely map people.
And so an example like that I can think of is that somebody who's got a very detailed idea of how it's all gonna play out. And so they're and they've been very strategic and usually they are midlife, ⁓ maybe in their last ten years of work, maybe, or approaching retirement. So usually I see this a lot where they've actually like the plan is actually coming into fruition. Like you can see the ⁓ the results are there.
(22:55)
Some people I've got, I'm thinking of one a week or so ago, were young children, yeah, you know, maybe early forties, but have still been mapping it out. And I know the third thing I was gonna say was that they sometimes can live all in the future and not enjoying quality memories, maybe today. Yep. ⁓ it's just something to be aware of. If you're planning for the future all the time.
(23:13)
Yes. Time.
(23:24)
Are you enjoying life today? God, who knows what's round the corner? Yeah. Yep. I know. Yep.
(23:30)
know, like there's two recent conversations that I can think of, and there was somebody who was ⁓ who had significant superannuation balances, but then were all they also know very knew very strategically the rules around retirement and accessing superannuation and how to maximize your super contributions. And then they were married, had a partner and they had she had a whole strategy around who was going to retire when and who was going to put the money into super and how they were going to leverage it. Right. And that they were also going to pull out a significant sum.
Almost half of that money to give to their daughter as a gift to set her up for life. And my original initial thought was, why would you do that? my God. Yeah. Like, my don't you need that? Yeah. And I did question her on that and the strategy and the thinking and she had thought it all through in so much detail that I couldn't fault. Wow. And very, very clear.
(24:13)
Yeah, yeah.
(24:27)
And then there was another one that I had, and they had ⁓ they were winding down, coming into retirement, and had about four million dollars in assets, outs you know, outside of the family home type thing and superannuation. And it all seemed quite you know, and it had been very strategic all the way through. They were double income, no kids. And they did seem like they had enjoyed a lot of their life.
And particularly, you know, the wind down and all of that stuff had actually, you know, the plan had helped. Yep. The plan had strategically helped. I'm just gonna give another example that's come to mind is some people coming into retirement or whatever and they've got a they wanted to check, hey, this is my plan, and it was a downsizing strategy, but they still had 10 years left to work and I didn't think it was actually a good idea.
(25:18)
Right.
(25:18)
So sometimes we do come across them, like sometimes it's like, you know, that's great, great, great, talk me through it, talk me through it. And it's the resiliency planning of stress testing it. What would you do if? But what would you do if you got sick? What would you do if this happened? Or they couldn't work those last few years or whatever. And then sometimes when you stress test it, you see it come undone a little bit, or that the possibilities or maybe that's not the greatest plan because you had the idea and we come up with a different alternative to consider sometimes.
(25:51)
Think the key is actually one tip that you'd really give, you know, for this example. So am I on the right track and I really want to plan for the future is contingency planning. Because life has a funny way of dealing us curveballs along the way. So you know, whether that's health or, you know, relationship or so really working through those what if plan A doesn't work. Like are we, you know, do we just h we we don't wanna manifest bad things, but you know, if we've got rose coloured glasses that everything is going to be perfect, we might be absolutely broken if plan A doesn't work out. Yeah. ⁓ so it is really, really healthy to really work on.
(26:37)
It's super important. Backup plan. I think that's the thing that makes us sleep well at night because we worry about the worst case scenario happening. But if you actually spent some time thinking that through, what would I do? Yeah. And then just have a plan.
(26:51)
Yeah, that's right. You know, even with your partner, look at all your assets or your loans and think, well, what would I do? You know, if something didn't work out, if I lost a partner or ⁓ we decided not to be together anymore, you know, what does that look like? Could you split it down fifty fifty and still be okay? But I feel like ⁓ a lot of people are just scared to even think like that. I think it's good. I think it's actually really, really healthy, you know? And talk about it.
(27:18)
Talking about having a strategy and a plan is so important. That's what I think is the difference between these people and others. They've got a strategy and they're executing on it. You know, and then they you can kind of see and it's got that zoomed out approach to it where you can see what the possibilities are. It's the difference of just living in the now and not having a plan or a strategy. Yeah. And just thinking that it'll work itself out.
(27:45)
Definitely. And just be aware of the risk.
(27:47)
Like what we were saying at the very beginning because I don't like be, I don't want my, I actually don't want to be like that. Like and that's okay too. Yeah. Like I don't want to be planned out to the nth degree where you know I'm gonna have to follow this thing. but each to their own. Some people want a straight, a bit of a balanced approach.
(28:05)
Cool right. Absolutely.
(28:14)
It can be good, but I think we get jealous of these people too. Like I think, yes. So you could be really intimidating for some other people because they feel like they just haven't got it sorted and you've got it all sorted.
(28:24)
And then it stops us talking about it and sharing. Yeah. About money. Which is not and 'cause we this that's probably the most common thing that when we jump on these calls with these people, that they say, I've never said this out loud or I've never shared this with anyone at all. And it also brings me back to the last podcast episode that we did when 'cause it was the absolute opposite. We talked about the concept of when you're just starting out or you don't even know where to start.
(28:41)
Yeah. Yeah.
(28:53)
And we just said, do something and that's literally what these people did. Mm. They maybe mapped it out and said, If I did X, Y, Z and they started They just started.
(29:02)
It just is, it is such a big thing if people could be more vulnerable and talk about money in open spaces and I mean like, you know, we talk about the barbecue, you know, social events or workplaces.
(29:16)
Pretty hard to lead with. I've got four million dollars in super.
(29:19)
Well it is, but y you can get to because it is the why I'm planning for the future. You know, the why stigma because sometimes people want to appear like they're doing the right thing, or sometimes it's actually not, I just want financial security. Or and and for those people though that think I just need to start and do something, you know, imagine if they could, you know, just start talking without any ego and actually sharing how much.
(29:48)
All people's financial well being would be uplifted. Yeah. Because everything's everybody's got something to learn from one another.
(29:55)
No, but we immediately want to go and judge each other, right? Because like even if you were honest and vulnerable, it doesn't mean the other person's willing and able to even hear. But I think we need to push through a little bit, as in like keep talking about it in those safe spaces with people, whether it's your partner or your close friends, and because it'll help.
(30:21)
'Cause I've got a question. Yeah. I've just thought of something. So those people ⁓ that ⁓ want to see if they're on the right track and they are planning for the future. Mm-hmm. Do you think they're worried about money? Yes. And say you've got a good asset, you everything's looking pretty good if you Yeah, but they're still worried. Doesn't take that feeling away. Very true. Yeah.
(30:39)
The steward. And so what are these people worried about?
(30:48)
Yeah, what are they worried about? That I still don't have enough? And what's the enough?
(30:54)
I think they're worried about losing it too. Once you've got it, how do, what if I lose? What if I screw this all up?
(30:57)
That is a massive thing.
That is actually yeah. What if I mess this up? Actually, that brings me back to a cup of cases and they're just worried. It was one very in a very, very strong, wealthy position that I can think of. And I said, just my gosh, you do whatever you want. Just whatever. Do whatever you feel like. And I said, Yeah, I said the same thing, what are you scared? Scared of messing it up. How could you ever, you know, like mess it up that much? Yeah. You know, like again, you learn a lot from just doing stuff.
Yeah. Yes. So ⁓ we all worry about money. It doesn't matter what financial position we're at.
(31:32)
Mm, yeah. Never spoken to anybody who's not not worried about it.
(31:42)
No. And that's how otherwise they don't call. So your financial well being is getting to a point where you can be comfortable and how the feeling is. And then yeah.
(31:57)
Yeah. But I think it's like you said before, it's confronting the fear and then working it through.
(32:03)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, and that brings me to another aspect, why do you feel this way in this situation? What's your money story? We'll probably come back to that.
(32:18)
Yeah. It's like why have it's like why we've gone down this path.
(32:23)
At all. Yep. And why do I care about the stuff that I care about and what am I doing it for?
(32:28)
Yeah. And is it aligned? Yep. And I think if we can say yes, it is all aligned great.
(32:33)
Great. Just enjoy, sleep at night. Stop worrying about it. Yeah. Just live. Yeah. ⁓
(32:42)
It's a capitalist world out there, people. This is a capitalist podcast.
(32:48)
Mm-hmm.
(32:50)
And money, isn't it fun?
(32:53)
God. It has so much, my gosh. Which is why we love it because there you know, there is no if it was an easy answer to it, then we wouldn't be talking about it and nobody would care or listen to this podcast either. That's right. But you know, it comes with so many overlays. And really all it is, if you think about it as a thing, all it is is a means of trade. That is it. Like physically, yes, that's what it does.
(33:17)
That's all it is.
(33:22)
Yes. But how much emphasis do we live on our brand, on our, you know, self esteem, our you know all linked to money. Yes. Or others judge us. Or we judge people or whatever. Take it all out. It's just a means of trade. Yes. Trade with food. Why not a piece of paper? Or whatever. Fur, wool.
(33:38)
So let it all go. Cow's milk. I don't know. Sheep's whatever they sheep have.
(33:52)
Yep. Some of you are like.
(33:54)
Okay, so ⁓ just to finish off today's podcast, we're gonna talk about a TMC concept or something that we the T C view of ⁓ getting on the same page as your partner.
(34:08)
This massive topic.
(34:10)
It is. And we always talk in these terms of like, ⁓ these people that we've spoken to but like ⁓ my God, it's so hard to be honest at home sometimes.
(34:20)
I've just had a lesson in it today because I haven't had a conversation about retirement. Yeah. That's my gosh. Which is a whole aspect. Yeah. Yep. It comes up, see, all the time. It comes all different ways.
(34:33)
It's huge. All the time because we have all of these little things because it's our money story, our belief system, and we kind of get stuck in our little cone of like self ⁓ whatever we've got going on personally over here and then the other person's over there doing their thing and then you're like I don't wanna upset their thing because it might upset my thing. So we'll just do our things.
(35:05)
And then we don't get where we're actually trying to go and then one day you wake up and you are old, darling. Wrinkly with your walking stick. I'm sure she likes old.
(35:12)
My girl, I do, I do, they're very wise.
(35:18)
Yeah, so there's so so so so many examples of this. Like on the daily, like and I love it. You can see when you get two people first of all, if you get two people on a call with us, my god, they're winning, right? So if you, we turn on, because we do our Zoom calls or whatever we do, we're video conferencing like and if you get two people turning up to a meeting, my god.
(35:46)
That's a mass. Green flag. That's why we're trying to work this out together. ⁓ my gosh, that is gold. It's such, it is the first step. And on the same page as your partner? Yeah.
(35:58)
Yeah, or bringing them their partner back to the second meeting or making sure that that's the thing or whatever. 'cause how hard is it to first of all, if you've gone and had a finance meeting with a stranger and then you've got to go home and relay what happened or even why you were on that call and the things that you talked about and why those things were even important and you go to that? What's going on? What did I do wrong? You know, all the defensive all the chats.
(36:22)
My gosh.
So I did have two people on the same call yesterday and then I asked one person a question and the other person proceeded to answer for that person. And she was like, ⁓ excuse me. She was asking me and he goes, Why does that matter?
(36:42)
And so that was fascinating. And I just even love facilitating this because it brings out those awarenesses in people because we are and do think different things. And actually, the person who was answering for the other one was trying to control the conversation and the direction of the conversation and the outcomes of the conversation. And the other person actually had extremely intense.
Intelligent questions which were very, you know, ⁓ worthwhile. And ⁓ I feel that's why I love doing the work that we do because I f I see in a very short period of time the actual help that we're able to bring and the value in the each of those type of interactions. But the point is if we are holding or with all withholding information from the other person or making assumptions for the other person
Or have ideas around where you think you're going. I've got news for you, kid.
(37:50)
That is not going to end well. And you will not get where you think you're going with the person you think you want to do it with.
Yeah. And or it might be the long road. Mm. It'll be a journey. And so
(38:05)
How do you know you've got the same goals in life?
(38:07)
Yeah, you'd have to talk and share those goals.
(38:11)
Yeah. Thought we're at retirement. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ yeah, that's right. If you you know, your goals are really important and and ⁓ you know, things to facilitate understanding your partner's money story and why what are their beliefs and why do they believe what they believe.
(38:31)
Well, why could you do that when you could just accuse them of all the wrong things that they do? That's the other option.
(38:40)
Supposed to be people we love.
(38:42)
But we see it all the time where somebody goes, they just spend all of our money. If it wasn't for them, we wouldn't be here.
(38:47)
Yeah, yep.
(38:50)
There's almost two ways. It's like you could understand what they're thinking or why they're doing that or how they feel.
(38:55)
Yeah. ⁓ And it's a reminder too, you know, ⁓ in that situation it might be a save a spender relationship. But the spender might be, you know, have to do all the household things. So, you know, what are they really spending on versus your ⁓ impression of what they might be spending on? And then, you know, are they the one that really has good connections with people and relationships and holds everybody together and, you know, maybe they're the gifters of the family and you know, like so when you actually unpack it and again know your numbers, where things are going, you might get a real surprise of, you know, who is spending, ⁓ and ⁓ you know, where all the money is going.
(39:41)
Also challenging values because sometimes we don't challenge each other. We just let the other person stay in their safe space. Like because we don't want to upset the apple cart, because we don't want to bring on a fight or an argument or ⁓ that type of disruption to the status quo. So but if somebody is like doing a behavior that you think isn't ⁓ helpful for getting where you want to go or even, you know, in in your current life. It's understanding why and having them not accusing them of messing it all up or making it somebody's fault. But really there's a reason why they're doing that. And they they probably feel fear and guilt over their behaviour anyway. And so we put up protection mechanisms. And so how do we kind of break that down?
And it's about compromise too.
(40:44)
Yeah, and sometimes ⁓ you know, particularly using money story, it's i i if you unpack how you grew up with money with each other, sometimes I I find when ⁓ I've talked about it with couples a bit, i i you can see the reconnection or if you I think of one case, ⁓ the ⁓ journey like live together for a very, very long time and from the humble beginnings, let's say that, both of them came from similar backgrounds and they've gone into like, you know, like ⁓ a more affluent ⁓ lifestyle and situation and they've just gone with it. It's not aligned to either of their values. And then you can see either one of them's trying to hold that position for the other. And neither of them actually want that. Yeah. So coming back to communication, understanding, just even reflection.
(41:36)
It's very hard to ⁓ unwind a life that you've created. But it it ca it can be a lot easier than what you think sometimes too. Yeah. So the other thing this brings me like I'm so aware of like once you start we sometimes don't want to have these conversations because it might go somewhere not great. Yeah, true. And also uncover somebody's complete unwillingness to support you or it might uncover that you are not on the same page.
Do not want to be going the same places or ⁓ uncover an untenable kind of situation that you're ⁓ well afraid of, but it actually confirms that. And what I'm talking about is maybe financial abuse, ⁓ like if somebody's unwilling to share their numbers or is becoming very closed, or it could be as simple as just not being on the same page. Like it could really uncover that the way you want to live. Is completely different, which means you can either come to a compromise or part your go your separate ways. Yeah. And these create decisions. Because I think in any relationship you have to have compromise. Like you so either go it alone, do your own thing. You don't need to worry about anyone else then. Or if you're not getting what you need, you need to make a decision. Definitely.
(42:40)
Yeah.
(43:01)
And also this is very hard if you've got children ⁓ in the mix about making a decision on what to do. And I'm not saying it's as easy as having a conversation at home and it's la di da and exactly. We're all happy.
(43:16)
Yeah, it just brings me back to, you know, money challenges and money relate you know, or not talking about this stuff at home or not being on the same page is the most common reason for, you know, separation. ⁓ so being able to talk about it openly and work it out. Yes. ⁓ it gives yourself the best chance of it working out. And if it's not meant to work out, it's not meant to work out. Yeah. You know. Yeah, it's such a tricky one.
(43:45)
Is it crossing your lines and your boundaries if you are not living the life that you are if you are compromising too much? Yeah. If you've compromised too much. Yeah. And only you know the answer to that. But there are definitely red flags and not being able to talk openly about money is a huge red flag.
(43:57)
That's right.
You definitely, you know, so if the tips around, you know, being on the same page as your partner, like if we bring it back in, you need to be able to talk about it openly. ⁓ you need to be able to talk about what's working and what's not. Mm-hmm. You need to, you know, we've got some tools and things even on our website around, you know, understand money personalities, you know, journal your money story and your background for where you come and your beliefs and your values and talk about that openly with each other and then what goals you want in life. And then
Yeah, eventually you can look at how if that's all good and you're all on the same page, then how are we going to achieve those goals together? And that might come down to even banking systems. Mm-hmm. We see many people that ⁓ have completely separate banking systems and wonder why they're not on the same page as their partner. There's a real correlation with that. Yeah. And some of it's happened innocently.
Enough ⁓ over the long haul, but it it means that we're not working or want we don't even know whether we want the same things or how we're gonna achieve them. Yeah.
(45:15)
Absolutely. Okay, and one last thing just on the same note is like having secret bank accounts and exit strategies on how to recause some people are ⁓ so scared because of the relationship experiences they've personally had or what they've witnessed in their own lifetime around money and vulnerability and having options, you know. and so if those things are happening in their real like I just want you to question, are you doing them because that is what will happen to you because you're the partner you're with i is showing signs and has red flags? Or are you doing that purely as a protection mechanism to prevent anything from happening and you're not giving that person a go? They are completely different. And this is around our belief system that we talk about.
All the time. So you need to internally be able to understand why you are behaving the way you are. And has that person shown up for you? And how can you test and trust them? What are small steps you can do to try and trust them? If you can't, you can't, and that's okay. We do need to protect ourselves and make decisions that are right for us. But at the same time we want to give things a fighting chance.
And that requires a little bit of putting yourself out there and challenging yourself. ⁓ and also we are leading the way for our children. They are watching everything that we do. Do we want them to be empowered and have great healthy relationships? They're watching.
(46:50)
Yeah. All the time. And then making their own decisions, you know, they like what you do or they don't like what you do. It doesn't yeah, so yeah.
(47:03)
So open it up. Anyway, this is our Relationship One podcast. Tune in anytime. We've heard a lot of things we are living through other people's experiences and we have no degree in psychology. No whatsoever.
(47:14)
We ⁓ marriage counselling. No. Partner counselling.
(47:30)
⁓ But happy yeah. So it's definitely a judgment free space when it comes to all of this and it's fascinating to see how all of this impacts outcomes.
(47:41)
Exactly. If we actually talked more openly and be more vulnerable, I I think yeah, we'd break down so much stigma around beliefs and
(47:48)
Yeah. And I systems. It's important, like ultimately to be the ideal thing is to have the close like to be open with the person you're in a relationship with. Other you do need somebody though that you can be get good advice from if you're not getting it inside that relationship. Yeah. You might need to seek it elsewhere too. Cool. Well, thank you everybody for joining us and for another money chat with us. And we'll catch you next time.
(48:07)
Yeah. At The Money Collective we provide financial wellbeing premium coaching, mortgage broking and workplace financial wellbeing programs, which we couldn't do without the seamless support of our fabulous team.
(48:27)
If you'd like to find out more, head to themoneycollective.com.au or our socials to take action and engage our services. In our Facebook group, join the conversation and help us break down the taboo around money.
(48:38)
All content in this podcast is for educational purposes only and is generally nature. For tailored personal advice, please seek out a professional.
This podcast provides general advice only. It does not take into account your objectives, financial situation or needs. Before acting on any information provided, you should consider the appropriateness of the information and the nature of the financial product in regards to your objectives, financial situation and needs. We recommend discussing your personal situation with a financial professional.
Podcast by:
MEL PEARCE & DARLENE NEU
Co-Founders, Financial Wellbeing Coaches and Mortgage Brokers
The Money Collective
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